Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 They knew I was gay, like throughout high school. Um, I wasn't out, I was actually very shameful and I decided to go to Olaf because I was like, Oh, this Christian imagery will reminds me, like not to be gay, if that makes sense, I guess it doesn't now. And that ended up being like the complete opposite, you know, and actually going to this school, opened up my, my eyes and my life and, um, very important way in my spirituality in a very important way. Um, because it had the opposite effect, you know, like I ended up accepting myself and knowing that God would love me.
Speaker 1 00:00:42 You're listening to sound mind where queer voices across Minnesota explore mental health through art. I'm Jane Ram sire Miller, artistic director of one voice mixed chorus. Minnesota is lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and straight allies. Chorus. We acknowledge that sound. Mine is produced and are 120 singers reside on the sacred traditional lands of the Dakota and initial snobby people, religion and spirituality play a complex role in the lives of LGBTQ people. For many, one voice members. Our first experience of singing in choir, we're part of a faith community and often a faith community that was no longer welcoming. Once we came out in this episode, I talk with Andrew Gonzales though. Andrew currently teaches music to K eight students in Chicago. He spent the previous four years as a student at St. Olaf college in Northfield, Minnesota, a town about an hour South of the twin cities. Andrew's journey of self-acceptance challenged his faith and family relationships deepening both as he learned to love himself as a gay man, I interviewed Andrew over zoom, me and my office and Andrew in the community room at the condo where he lives in the Logan square neighborhood of Chicago. I can see why Andrew's music. Students love him. He is a Teddy bear kind of guy with a gentle smile and infectious laugh. I ask Andrew to take us back to eighth grade where his journey as a music teacher began.
Speaker 0 00:02:14 I am from Chicago. I am currently employed as a CPS teacher in the Logan square neighborhood. I'm a music teacher that teaches kindergarten through eighth grade, and I graduated from St. Olaf college in 2020. So it's only been a couple of months since I've graduated. And that's funny because I really didn't get a whole graduation ceremony considering the pandemic. I was actually looking at Facebook messages to my eighth grade math teacher. Like in the beginning of the year, I was just reflecting on my like education experience in college. And like my, my profession that I was getting into for student teaching and I had looked at these messages, I was all like, you know, I really want to be a teacher when I grow, but I really like music. And she was like, you could be a music teacher. And I was like, you're probably I could be, you know, and that was when I was in eighth grade after I had graduated.
Speaker 0 00:03:07 And I was like, I already knew, like from my like eighth grade year that I wanted to be a music teacher. There have been times when I've been really challenged, not only by the, the normal challenges that a teacher faces, but also just like school. School's really hard, especially at Olaf, even though I love the school. And even though like I did succeed, there were a lot of challenges academically, but also socially that I had faced at that school that weren't easy to necessarily overcome. Those had caused me to really question my passions and things like that. But I think it made me that much more stronger at the end to know that at the end, like this is something that I actually wanted. You know, I was kind of like a test of a test of time and truth.
Speaker 1 00:03:48 Andrew traveled a really unique journey from growing up in an urban Puerto Rican Pentecostal family to choosing a Lutheran college in Northfield, Minnesota. Here's a bit about his family and community growing up.
Speaker 0 00:04:00 So I grew up, um, in Logan square Chicago, which is where I currently teach. And I feel really happy to be back in that neighborhood. And while I don't teach at the same elementary school, I went to, I teach just about a mile away. And, um, it's really nice because it feels very familiar in terms of the people and the community that I interact with on a daily basis. I'm Puerto Rican. Um, and my parents have lived here. All of their lives are born here. It was my grandparents who came when they were like a little younger from Puerto Rico, even though I'm, I would, I think this is the second generation. The culture is still very ingrained and very alive with my family. I don't think has been lost at all in terms of the food we eat and just how we speak to each other.
Speaker 0 00:04:47 And a lot of the, the cultural values that we have. And I grew up in a Pentecostal church, um, where people speak Spanish and that's where I learned to speak Spanish as well, because like everything was in Spanish there. I would go all the time with my grandparents when I was younger. So I had decided on Tino off because it was a small liberal arts school, which I really thought was important because I wanted that connection with professors. And then, um, I liked that it was a Christian college cause it kind of felt familiar to me
Speaker 1 00:05:15 Travel from rural Minnesota to study in a city. But Andrew grew up in Chicago and chose to study in Northfield, a town of about 15,000. If you don't count the college students. Now, if you are acquire nerd, you definitely think of St. Olaf college as a nice liberal arts college with incredible choirs and a rock and choral Christmas program, but like many communities St. Olaf college experienced repeated incidents of racist speech on campus, especially around 2016 and 17. As a result, students coordinated a series of protests to hold the college administration accountable to address internal racism on campus. Hate speech is an all too common for many students who are part of minority groups on campuses, especially for black indigenous people of color at predominantly white institutions. Andrew was actively involved in these protests in 2016. And in fact, his coming out as a gay man was directly linked with addressing racial justice at St. Olaf here's Andrew.
Speaker 0 00:06:18 When I had come out, it was actually St. Olaf's protests back in 2016, we were protesting and advocating for like institutional changes. And during that time, I was also considering my sexuality very heavily. And I was just thinking about like all of these, um, sexual injustices, not only with racism, but also sexism and homophobia and transphobia and just all of these different things all at once. Because like, these things are always intersectional. Like racism is not it's is not just one issue. You have to speak about them in intersectional ways. I had like, you know, stood with students. I had like slept in, um, our, like a common area. I had gone through all these motions with other students. I wasn't, no, I wasn't no means like at the forefront of all of this, but in my head, you know, like I was still dealing with my own personal issues.
Speaker 0 00:07:11 It was like the first time that I had like, kissed a boy, like it was like that, that during, around that time, and I was like, really considering how awesome that felt and how, um, I had felt so happy about it. I guess it was like that kiss that made me realize, yeah, I'm gay. This is who I am. Even though there were still some aspects of shame, I guess, attached to that, because it was like this big secret that I wasn't ready to tell my mom and my own, just my family. So I had started coming out to a couple of friends during that time. And so my advisor and I was just like, uh, like tears, like just absolute tears. Cause, you know, I felt such a, such a relief, but also like so much shame at the same time, because like there was like the secret that I was still keeping from my family.
Speaker 0 00:07:56 And so later on in that summer, I had come out to my mother, one of those big things, I guess, in coming out to my mom and coming out to more to my, my dad and my grandmother who really have these ideas of like homosexuality and they just have so much shame, like so much shame surrounds that, that identity, it wasn't until like my junior year when I had gotten more involved with chapel and just heard like pastor Matt and Katie preaching and like hearing their affirmations and hearing their, their just loved that they would preach. And I'm not like these ideas of like hate and division. Like they really helped me understand that like, yeah, people don't have to be homophobic. Um, gay people don't have to believe that they are hated by the church. It was really a beautiful, I guess, because like I had considered faith to be something that was really important to me, it's a big part of like my family's culture as well, as much as it is.
Speaker 0 00:08:54 Um, just like I said, I had grown up in a very kind of very Hispanic, um, congregation. And so like, there's a lot of culture attached to that and my family roots. And so it felt really awesome that I could reconcile my faith with my sexuality because I feel like that was a really big part of, of me. And I didn't want to just let it go because it didn't, it didn't work at first, if that makes sense, you know, like I, I wanted to stand true to my convictions. It just takes a lot of work. It, it really does to unlearn and to do research and to like just constantly have to battle. It is so exhausting. It's like a big mental game. It's also really awesome when you can make decisions and you can, you do a lot of learning and a lot of challenging of your faith. And I think that's really important because a lot of people don't challenge their faith enough. You know, I never want to be like that blind sheep that just does what someone says or believes what someone else said because they are a pastor. I want to make sure that what I believe in is something that I hold true and like is really a conviction that I have.
Speaker 1 00:09:59 This is our third sound, mind podcast. And each person I've interviewed has described their struggle to reconcile their spirituality with their sexuality. When I started as artistic director with one voice, there were many members who were uncomfortable singing any music from a Christian tradition or performing in a church, the pain and rejection that's so many LGBTQ people have experienced from both family and church communities is deep and difficult to heal at the same time. Some of our most profound experiences as a queer choir have come from singing in places where we're not comfortable. I remember a concert tour where one voice sang at a church just South of Northfield. The congregation was trying to decide whether to officially welcome LGBT individuals for their Sunday morning worship. We sang, I come from good people, a song that describes the experience of both rejection and belonging for queer people coming out halfway through the song. I noticed that some of my singers were crying. When I looked around me, I realized that most of the congregation had dissolved into tears.
Speaker 1 00:13:43 The following week. I answered a phone call from the pastor of that church. They held a vote the next Sunday and decided to welcome LGBTQ people as full members. And our music was a part of making that miracle happen. Okay. Speaking about shared music in 2018, one voice mixed chorus took a tour and, uh, we were heading down to Northfield and also to Western Minnesota and had a chance to sing with Andrew at St. Olaf college. And, um, Andrew, tell us about what it was like for an LGBTQ plus chorus to show up on campus, a hundred people and sing with your choir.
Speaker 2 00:14:26 I haven't ever seen a LGBTQ plus choir, like in real life. Something that I really found beautiful was just like the different ages of people that are part of the community. And I had never met people who were older as well, who were part of the LGBTQ plus community, you know, and I had been someone, and I'm not saying that everyone in is old either because
Speaker 0 00:14:52 There's a variety of ages and a variety of people.
Speaker 1 00:14:55 What Andrew describes is true. There's an incredible diversity of ages. In one voice, we have members as young as 14, several singers in their young eighties and lots of ages in between. I love the relationships and conversations that happen in our community across the decades.
Speaker 0 00:15:12 I think one of the most special things for me was seeing the older people, because it made me realize like, Oh, like gay people have always existed. Like we've always existed and we've always been here. And it was just really nice to have this intergenerational experience where I sang with, with people, part of the community that were older than myself. It also made me realize that people are all in different journeys in their life and in terms of acceptance. And that was also really beautiful. It just made me really happy to know that an organization like this existed as well. And it was just beautiful that we were just seeing about love. It just couldn't be any more powerful that song. I love that song so much that that music is so beautiful.
Speaker 1 00:15:55 The songs that one way sang with the Saint olive choir on tour was a composition called love is by Saint olive conductor. <inaudible> in addition to performing it at St. Olaf in 2018, our choir is also recorded. A video of love is early in the COVID pandemic. You can view the video version on our podcast website.
Speaker 0 00:16:17 That's the one that Morgan you, he is the conductor of the St. Paul chapel choir right now, but he's also a composer and he's computer close. A few pieces and love is, is one of the pieces that I really love from. I mean, I love all his pieces, but love is one of those really special ones. It starts off really saw. And then it just grows and grows and passion. It gets really loud. And I think it's just a call of love. It is an announcement of love, kind of a decision of love. And it's the words of lemon, one Miranda, and also a passage from the Bible and Corinthians. It talks about what love is love is patient love is kind, it hopes all things believes all things. And then Lin Manuel Miranda. When he had accepted an award, he gave a speech about it. Just like, love is love is love. Is he just kept on repeating that I, to me, it feels like an Anthem to be able to sing it. And it's remarkable just like the amount of power that there is in that, in that song. And it's so simple at the same time, just like love it. And I think that's the most word feeded phrase in that
Speaker 0 00:19:50 I decided to, you know, come out, like there was a part of me that knew, like I don't have to have that shame because the people around me don't feel shameful, you know? And that was really easy. Um, when I first came out in college, um, my first year, but now I'm coming out to my family because I decided to come out to my family because I wanted them to know more about me. Um, I wanted them to be able to be a part of my life. I don't want to shut them out of this part of my life. So I feel like I wanted them to know, because in the future, like this is going to be a very, I don't want to say a big part of my life, but it is like, you know, who I decide to have as a partner in the future and whatnot.
Speaker 0 00:20:29 It's kind of like now in my dad's ball court and in my mom's court, you know, it's like, what do you, what are you going to do? And a lot of that are, are really tough conversations that are exhausting, that I know I can't have all the time, but I can slowly have. And I know that I'm very fortunate in the sense that like I'm old enough where if I want to leave, I can leave on my own. I'm also fortunate where they have expressed their love to me and said, you know, Andrew, like, I'm going to support you no matter what, because you're my son. And that's like a really important thing. Right. But they still have a lot of shame surrounding that. I'm also very fortunate in the sense that like, when I decided to come out, I didn't know how they were going to react.
Speaker 0 00:21:07 And so I felt like when I decided to come out, like I came out in a time where I felt like I could support myself, had they just like completely disowned me. And that's like a real fear of a lot of people in the LGBTQ plus community. And, um, it was definitely in mind. And so that was kind of like my defense mechanism. And that's why it's so important that, you know, everybody consider their options and decide carefully who they let in and when they let in, because not everybody can just do it when they want to, not everybody has that privilege. So I know that I, I was privileged in that regard
Speaker 1 00:21:40 Clear that Andrew's journey, navigating intersectional issues of race and sexual orientation with his church, college and family really influenced his approach as a teacher.
Speaker 0 00:21:50 One of the really important things is just coming up with a classroom climate that invites people to be different and to be themselves without feeling shame, and having a teacher that is knowledgeable enough to support them. And then also having a Cricut, a curriculum that addresses all of the identities in the classroom. Um, some of the identities that are not in the classroom doing Latin X heritage, I decided that I would have a unit about Latin American music and different artists and learning like different, um, characteristics of music while also learning about culture. There was a person that I had to decided to include. <inaudible> who's like this famous Mexican American singer songwriter she's already passed away, but you know, she's saying all over Latin America. And she was very famous because she, she just had a very unique voice and a very unique style, which was so beautiful.
Speaker 0 00:22:48 And we had talked about these things, but we also talked about like her sexuality and who she was. And I'm like, those are like really important things. Like, I remember some kids being, like, when I said, like she was part of the LGBTQ plus community, like the kids in the chat section, like OMG, like, um, exclamation Mark, you know, and some of these students were like, I know some of these students are queer because their little thumbnails have like the little like LGBTQ pride flag or like they have, uh, progressive flag. And it's just really nice to be able to see that in my, in my kids. And, and also know that their identities are affirmed within the curriculum. That I'm also like providing
Speaker 1 00:23:31 In the video of you with your kids who who's playing guitar.
Speaker 0 00:23:35 It's my dad, that's my dad. Um, he's a very awesome guitarist. Like he's one of those people that like, can practice eight, 10 hours a day. Like no problem. He has always been invested in guitar and music. And so I think that, you know, music has been one of the ways that me and my dad connect. Um, even though we see differently on a lot of things, like, I think music is one of the things that we can typically agree on and actually have very similar opinions with. And so that's something that I really hold specials because like I said, like, I want to include my dad and in my life as much as possible. And it's really hard. Like I can't do it all for my dad, you know, but I know my dad has the capacity to love, and obviously he's still very involved in my life and I try to, um, include them where I can. Um, and this is one of the main ways that I have, you know, just by including him in and my musical endeavors like this video, uh, I didn't even know what their voices sounded like. I have never heard their voices before. And so like this video. So like, it has been like an experience
Speaker 1 00:24:41 I was already in off public school music teachers before the pandemic, but I can't even fathom how Andrew was able to move into a virtual learning role as a first year teacher.
Speaker 0 00:24:53 But you know, the reason why he did it was because I just wanted the kids to have a little bit of fun during this time. And just to be able to share something with others and just let the community know that like your school is still alive.
Speaker 1 00:25:27 For Andrew, the St. Olaf, Minnesota community turned out to be the perfect place to reconcile his spirituality and sexual orientation and prepare him to be an awesome music teacher for those young Logan square students. Thank you, Andrew, for your stories and music. Our sound mind website has full videos of Andrew students singing Felice Navidad, accompanied by his dad on guitar. Also check out the love, his virtual choir, a collaboration between St. Olaf chapel choir, and one voice mixed chorus. This concludes episode three of sound mind from one voice mixed chorus, Minnesota's LGBTQ and straight allies chorus. This podcast is made possible by the voters of Minnesota through the Minnesota state arts board. Thanks to a legislative appropriation from the arts and cultural heritage fund. Yay, Minnesota voters. Thank you to audio engineer theater writer and all around smart tech person. Paul Cruz. Join us for the next sound mind episode to meet Victoria Evans, a recent university of Minnesota Morris grad in voice performance and gender women and sexuality studies from cold spring, Minnesota Victoria talked with about the ways choirs and choral music have both supported her mental health and offered a place of belonging as she was coming out.
