Speaker 0 00:00:00 I would say, I look average, but I'm not sure what that looks like, but I think that if somebody were looking for Kimani and they saw me enter the room, they would say there she is. When I was a man, they said I was really soft-spoken. And now that I'm a woman, they tell me I'm too loud. So yes, please. Thank you. By the time I was 12, I do remember I was kind of an idol and I had a television in my room and I was able to hide it in my bed tent when I wanted to watch late night TV. And I think I might've been watching entertainment tonight or something, but I remember a short segment about a transgender model supermodel. I didn't catch the name. I just remember them saying, you know, having undergone a sex change and that really, um, stuck in me. I, I remember thinking, oh, okay. One day. So certainly by the time I was 12, I already knew that I was expecting things has changed to come. I was hoping it would happen, you know, in a profoundly natural way. I guess those changes didn't come from me, but my feelings didn't change. <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:01:30 You're listening
Speaker 2 00:01:30 To sound mind where queer voices across Minnesota explore mental health through art. I'm Jane Ram, Sarah Miller, artistic director of one voice mixed chorus. Minnesota is lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and straight allies. Chorus. We acknowledge that sound mind is produced and our singers reside on the sacred traditional lands of the Dakota. And <inaudible> people. In this episode, I talk with actor, dancer, singer, and Renaissance woman, Kimani Kahleel, who lives in crystal, Minnesota. I first met Kimani in 2017 when I was looking for a synth player for a one voice concert, a friend recommended Kimani. And when she walked into that first rehearsal, I knew I had hired a force of nature. Let's just say, when Kimani enters a room, people notice Kimani is one of those people who has so many gifts that you kind of wonder, is there anything she can't do? Oh, did I mention she designs and sews her own clothing?
Speaker 0 00:02:35 My name is Kimani. I, uh, how do I describe myself? I think when I enter a room, I am very present. I kind of have two aspects of my personality. One that's really, um, easy going and laid back. And the other is very bold and just driven. Like I said, very present. I currently live in the twin for a job. I work for a nonprofit in the health professional services for work. I love doing art. And, uh, it has been in the form of choreography of music, of, uh, composing singing, um, performing, um, as an actor, doing workshops and for fun. I love, um, I love the outdoors. I like going for walks. I like riding a bike. I love a good beach.
Speaker 0 00:03:36 Yeah. If I have an opportunity to be near the ocean, I love it. Oh, I'm from Minnesota. I was born in Minneapolis at a hospital that isn't there anymore. St Mary's and that might give away a little bit of my age, but that's okay. We'll just say top forties. Um, I, uh, I'm a middle child and, um, there's almost six years between each of my siblings. My, my folks are from Louisiana and Mississippi. Uh, we lived over south Minneapolis for the, until I was about four or five. Then we moved to golden valley and I grew up in golden valley the rest of the time. But my father, uh, taught at north high school in Minneapolis for many, many, many years. And my mother worked for general mills corporation. Um, retired from general mills after 35, 36 years. Maybe I remember lots of music, lots of good food and lots of sports.
Speaker 0 00:04:42 Cause my dad was all sports. He coached football, basketball track, cross country, his track team or the basketball team or the football team, whichever team he was working with would run from north high school to our house in golden valley. And my mom would always have a huge meal prepared. So I often heard things like Ms. Queen, when are we going to have dinner again, things like that to my mom because they loved coming and having a good meal. I was the easy child. I think I wanted to do what my dad did to some degree. You know, it wasn't that I wasn't athletic, but I wasn't really competitive. I did enjoy football. And I remember I did play a couple of years of Peewee football because my dad's one of my dad's closest friends. You know, his son played football and you know, we were around the same age.
Speaker 0 00:05:36 And I think that at that time, my dad perceived that, you know, maybe I was, maybe I was going to be an athlete and you know, I wasn't bad. I was pretty good at a lot of things. I remember when he tried to get me to go to wrestling because you know, his friend's son was a wrestler. And I remember my dad taking me. I remember that we were about 10 minutes late and all the young men were like paired off. I was, uh, just put right away, uh, with some other kids, I guess we were going to learn up maneuver or I don't even know what to call it, but, um, I was on all fours and, um, I remember my right wrist, the guy that was my partner, uh, had his hand on my right wrist and was like on one knee with the other one kind of behind me or something in arm around or about to go around, find at all.
Speaker 0 00:06:44 I just remembered that just being in that position didn't feel comfortable for me. And I stood up immediately and I said, uh, you can't put your hands on me that way. And I remember it being very quiet and my father saying, okay, well, let's go. And I think that was really great because, um, he really respected right away that that probably wasn't for me, the language definitely came later, but, um, I probably knew as early as six, I just remember having a really lovely crush on one of the basketball players on my dad's team. I still remember his name, but I'm not gonna put it out there. I do hope that you're well though, he was one of the kindest people I've ever, he was fun and it was, I knew it was just, I just felt a kindness and a gentleness in him that was just really lovely.
Speaker 0 00:07:35 You know, he would carry me on his shoulders and I would go flirt for him. So, uh, you know, I'd get cheerleaders numbers and yeah, he was really attractive too. And my six year old mind, I know that's not what I was probably thinking, but, you know, in retrospect, and when I was about 19, I guess I, I remember saying out loud for the first time to someone that, um, I thought I was a transgender person that I thought I was, um, that I should have been born, a woman about six or seven months later, that guy ended up being my first boyfriend, which was a great first boyfriend. He was a kind human being. He was compassionate. He was incredibly handsome.
Speaker 0 00:08:27 I met him at, uh, a rave. So this is like back in the nineties, when you know, my friends, we would go and travel to dance parties. And this one was called further and it was a three-day festival that was, you know, you had full of camping and everything. One of the friends that was meeting us there went to high school with them and had brought him along. And I saw them walking across the field over to our campsite. It was just this man with these beautiful long dreads, this perfectly shaped goatee. And I just thought that's a handsome man. I was like, yeah. And so I think my crush was instant, but I didn't never said anything. But then, you know, after months of hanging out and getting to know each other and having friends in common and things, one night I got this lovely, he was a writer, he wrote poetry and I got this lovely, um, love poem requesting a sharing of hearts. And, uh, and I said, yes. And I'm so glad
Speaker 2 00:09:28 I think with Kimani, it's clear that she is a true romantic and that passion extends to every area of her life, including a long love affair with music you described. I'm just remembering that video from the trans voices festival where you described like singing to your hairbrush. Is that was,
Speaker 0 00:09:47 Yes. I always have something for Mike it's a fan it's um, if it's a phone, I mean, but, um, yeah, I had a hairbrush was always around. I mean, there was always a hairbrush or, um, oh, the deodorant, the roll-on deodorant from like Avon or Mary Kay. I would, those I would have around, um, yeah, anything that could kind of look like a microphone. And if I had, if I wanted to put an extra time to it, you know, I put some paper and stuff and make it look all real fancy and everything, but occasionally I'd throw on my towel here, Jane. It was so interesting because I didn't have piano lessons or anything like that when I was growing up, I didn't have any of that music stuff. Um, like I said, there was a whole lot of sports stuff. So music was kind of something that I did, um, for myself.
Speaker 0 00:10:38 I remember when I was really young, I wasn't necessarily exposed to a lot of music. I was exposed to a lot of gospel and like, um, some bluegrass. And then like at my, when I'd go to visit with my grandmother out of my aunt's room was where most of the music would be coming from. And of course, then I would get the grown folks, music, you know, Rick James and friends, you know, like my taste in music didn't really develop until way later. I think my first cassette was, uh, I had three of them. I think one was, uh, Tina Turner's private dancer, Michael Jackson, or no, the Jackson's victory, 1984. And, uh, poison, which I got from a friend of mine in junior high. But I remember singing my face off to like, I need a baker and Shirley Murdoch and, um, Shirley Caesar and, um, the Clark sisters, oh, and Whitney Houston. I loved Whitney Houston. And knowing that I don't sing like that
Speaker 2 00:11:38 Young folks going through puberty can be a challenging experience and transgender youth may experience gender dysphoria, that exhibits as depression or anxiety or other mental health issues for people who are not able to live as their self today with a competent physician and parental support, a young trans woman nearing puberty can take hormone blockers. They temporary block testosterone for making changes in her body. For example, rather than the voice changing from soprano to base or beginning to grow facial hair, those usual puberty changes are suspended. Then when the individual is a few years older, they can make an informed decision about their transition and eventually start taking estrogen if they choose to. But hormone blockers are relatively new. When Kimani reached puberty, her voice started dropping in pitch and she was assigned to the bass section in her high school choir.
Speaker 0 00:12:36 So I was sophomore in high school. I had been singing in the choir. Um, I think I, I started singing, um, inquires when I was like in fifth or sixth grade every year, we'd have a joint festival where are the, both the high schools and the bands and orchestras and, and, and both schools would join and do a big, a major choral work, you know, like the Messiah or something. And they'd bring in a guest conductor. And I remember this year that our guest conductor was Paul Oakley. There was one song in the repertoire that, um, my voice was going to the weird change thing and I had to sing bass and it was very boring part for me. And I thought, wow, if I can learn how to play the song, I won't have to sing it. So for the whole first semester, I would pick a different class that I could miss.
Speaker 0 00:13:29 And I would go to the practice room and teach myself to play the song. And by the end of the semester, I was pretty good at it. After winter break, we had a choir rehearsal and that song came up and I asked my choir director if I could play it. And I was like, oh, I didn't know you play. And I was like, yeah, really? It was just like, no, I can play this, but, but I played that song girl. And so when, uh, the guest conductor came for rehearsal, he asked if I would play it for the concert.
Speaker 0 00:14:10 And I was like, of course, thank you so much. Boy, talk about manifesting because I never had to sing that song, but I can tell you the part that would bump BA BA BA BA bum, bum, bum, bum bum bum bum bum bum, bum bum, BA BA BA BA bum, bum bum for 12 more pages. Um, and I was not trying to do that, but the piano was all rhythmic and I, you know, I could really, yeah, I can really, I feel a groove with it, but after I learned that song, I just, I couldn't stop. Then my appetite for wanting more music was huge. And by the time I left the school, I had literally played through at least, um, I played through every single song and my music director's library at least one time. It was that it meant that much to me. I also started playing the elbow just cause I knew the oboe player had graduated and they needed to Nobel. So I decided to learn all about, um, cause if I could have played an instrument that was in elementary school, it would have been the elbow. I loved it. It was very Capricorn, you know, very sophisticated. I asked Kimani
Speaker 2 00:15:33 To talk about her experience transitioning, especially with her family. I
Speaker 0 00:15:37 Think the transition part for my family, might've gotten a little bit easier than, um, the coming out part, but it depends on which sibling I think you're talking to. My mom was just phenomenal. My mom is a phenomenal woman. She always has been a phenomenal woman in my life. She just has such grace and she's truly loving. I get a little emotional sometimes because there's so much time I want with my mom and I don't always have access to it because she's caring for so many people all the time. My father had passed. Um, by the time I was able to really complete my transition, but I already know, you know, he would say, yeah, you look good. That's how he would say it. You look good. He's also though the, um, it was knowing his love really, that really made it okay for me.
Speaker 0 00:16:38 He was, he was the first person to really ask me, you know, if I was happy, would I be happy being a woman? I thought that was pretty profound. I wish I had had more courage sooner, but you know, I'm happy to be here now. I've had, you know, I've been very fortunate. Um, my handful of, of lovers have truly been loving and I appreciate each of them for the things that we experienced and the things I learned and taught, you know, that they taught me and that we learned together and I've never felt a real strong drive to have to express my sexuality or my sexual identity has never been, um, something that I felt like I've wrestled with intense desires of, of one or another. I'm reasonably modest, but I don't know that I'm shy to not call you shy.
Speaker 2 00:17:39 Sometimes people assume that being gay or lesbian is the same as being transgender. And I think that's partly because we tend to use that acronym, LGBT lesbian, gay, BI transgender as one acronym, without any pauses between the words sexual orientation, the GLB gay lesbian BI is about who you're attracted to. And that's different from gender identity. Like all other people, transgender people can be gay, straight, lesbian, bisexual, or anything in between. So for Kimani, she first came out as a gay man, even though she knew from a young age that there was a woman inside of her, it wasn't until later that she felt ready to come out publicly and share her identity as a woman.
Speaker 0 00:18:26 I think I had a harder time kind of reconciling my, my race identity with my, with an identity at all. I guess I think that just feeling like under each of them, like there was something wrong with me, um, or that something wasn't enough. And so, uh, I think the synthesis now is that, you know, it's all good
Speaker 2 00:18:57 In 2017. When I hired Kimani to play synth in that one voice concert, I had no idea that she had been a one voice singer in the early years of the chorus. She shared that news after the first couple of rehearsals together. So in this interview, I asked her to talk about what one voice was like in the early nineties. One of her first memories is of soprano, Kathie Lee, a founding member of one voice who had, and still has the voice of an angel. So I pulled out a couple of vintage recordings from that era, including Kathy singing, the PAs zoo from the foray Requiem here's Kimanti's flashback to joining one voice mixed chorus. Soon after it started,
Speaker 0 00:19:41 I honestly don't know how I, why it happened. Maybe I even looked at a listing or something and I just really wanted to be singing. So, um, you know, I wasn't in school or anything. It was just this weird kind of time for me. I was, you know, I wasn't in high school anymore and I wasn't really, you know, I hadn't planned, I had plans for college or anything. Um, so I probably just came to a one voice audition and I think it was all of like 30 people, maybe 32 people. Um, I think it just happened kind of like that. And I made friends with the choir there. Um, one of them, Kathy Lee, gosh, Kathy Lee. There've been so many really fantastic people, um, that I've just been honored to have some time with it's. Um, I remember we sang at pride and yeah, we had fun. We had a great time. I remember I'm trying to think of the songs there was, uh, I remember we, we did some that were really kind of very, very campy. Um, oh, what was it we're coming out in Kansas from the, uh, oh, we're everywhere is what the name of the song was. And I CA I can't remember, um,
Speaker 3 00:21:32 Where <inaudible>
Speaker 2 00:21:59 And Paul Patrola founded one voice in 1988. He wanted to create a space where gay men and lesbians could sing together and could be community together. It was actually a radical thing in the late eighties. Those two communities, gay men and lesbians were very separate. So Paul founded one voice in the midst of the aids epidemic when lesbian women were beginning to care for gay men who were dying of aids, but when Kimani entered the one voice community, she was not out yet as a trans woman. And she presented as a gay man.
Speaker 0 00:22:32 Well, I hadn't presented as trans because for myself, I wouldn't get comfortable with that for years. I just was still trying to live in a practical way or what I thought was going to meet the expectations didn't work. But, you know, um, there weren't a lot of people of color, you know, I was often the only, um, black American and the spaces that I, uh, was in, um, often. So, and for the most part, I don't know that it was ever an issue. You know, I didn't, I really wasn't cognizant of it, except in the sense that I was listening for, um, the cadences of people that I would talk with, um, because it would just let me know a lot about where they're coming from, because there, there was still some, the navigating of, you know, the black one, you know, some of the exoticizing that happens sometimes.
Speaker 0 00:23:47 Um, and you know, I was young, so, but I wasn't, like I said, I, I didn't feel insecure or, um, like I needed to, I wasn't, um, anxious or driven, I guess, in terms of finding a way to express myself sexually. Um, I was willing to take my time. I just didn't have the hustle going on while people either tell you what they want you to know or what their question is, what they're looking for. And a lot of times it comes down in the cadence. It was a nuance that I feel like, um, has helped me kind of navigate areas where there might have been unconscious bias. And I think also I wanted to, to give people agency if they just were ignorant out of, you know, simply being ignorant or if they were willfully. So, um, which was a very different thing. And I needed to know it, should my response be, what is your interest, or is there a space here where I can actually share, you know, can I be myself? Do I have to code switch
Speaker 2 00:24:55 Code switching happens when someone shifts between different ways of speaking or behaving in order to fit in more easily, for example, a gay man with a more feminine way of speaking or living in his body might put on a more masculine air when visiting family members. I did my undergrad studies in Ontario. And with a few weeks, I found myself adopting the lilt, an accent of Ontario Canadians so that no one would suspect I was from the U S an African-American woman might speak differently at home compared to the words and inflections she uses when presenting to a room full of white people in her work setting, there are many reasons people code switch. It's often a way for people with marginalized identities to feel safe or accepted.
Speaker 0 00:25:42 That's what I guess what I mean by that, listening for that cadence, there's a rhythm, you know, I've had some rough experiences in my life, too. I grew up in a suburb, but it wasn't always good. A lot of times it wasn't good at all. And my personal life, I had, you know, some, um, abuses and, and, and, um, assaults and things that made it, um, no complicated Drizly and, you know, and I've had, I've been taken advantage of. And so listening to that cadence became really, um, important for me because I, um, because I was very naive, you know, like I said, I'm pretty, I'm pretty open. Yeah. I just was naive. I've really had this kind of view of like, you know, not everybody is really as bad as terrible as everybody everybody's saying they are. I mean, like everybody's gonna, you know, once they get, you know, once they meet me, it's going to be different know or, you know, they'll be there.
Speaker 0 00:26:45 There's no way that someone would do that to me. And, you know, it had to come out of learnings from some of those situations. I like the cadences that make me feel peace. They have lots of different rhythms and tempos, but there's something that is the same about them. Like, there's a, um, they don't send off a ping in me in that way. They, um, they definitely send a little bit more of like a, um, a ripple or a caress, but the cadences that send that ping are the ones that I'm always like, Hmm. What is your interest?
Speaker 2 00:27:22 I asked him Ani about her experience as a black trans woman living in crystal, Minnesota, and outer ring suburb of the twin cities
Speaker 0 00:27:30 For them part. I go and I walk around the neighborhood, um, because I like to go for walks. And I want my neighbors to, I guess, get used to seeing me because, you know, no, not everybody is a terrible person. Everyone is very, um, isolated and kind of keeping to themselves. And some of it might be because of the pandemic, but, um, it also could be just, uh, well, definitely last year, I think it was because of the pandemic. I'm hoping that, um, maybe I'll see, um, even more people now. So yeah, I think it's a mixed bag, but, you know, everybody can only engage with their own level of comfort. And I just, you know, I just want people to know I'm here. This is normal.
Speaker 2 00:28:22 Kimani is definitely an endless well of creativity. I was excited to learn about her new podcast. Check out the link on the sound, mind webpage.
Speaker 0 00:28:33 I want to ask people to just look out for, um, a podcast that I'm going to be doing with, uh, one of my besties. It's like a brother to me and it's conversations on black thoughts from the Heartland. We're hoping to premiere first, uh, cast on, uh, around the 4th of July in money and ivory key experience.
Speaker 2 00:28:57 Kimani also performed as part of one voices, trans voices festival in 2018. The event brought people from all across the United States and Canada to share together learning workshops and to sing the following recording is from a series of short documentaries that were filmed at that festival. You'll hear Kimani talk about her own music, and also you get to hear her perform
Speaker 1 00:29:22 <inaudible> and just the delicate, respecting other people's through theirs. Um, but there's a whole lot of overlap, which is why, um, which is why it's good to get noisy love story creations, glory. <inaudible>
Speaker 2 00:30:43 When I think about the challenges of mental health during a pandemic, definitely artists are among those who have had a difficult time staying employed, but artists have also kept the world entertained and laughing and singing, naming the struggles we've all experienced and offering a sense of hope. I asked Kimani what it is that keeps her so buoyant and resilient, especially considering the many transitions and life challenges she's experienced.
Speaker 0 00:31:13 Oh my goodness. I, the song that just came into my mind was, um, ah, just <inaudible>,
Speaker 0 00:31:25 I've come too far from where I started and um, oh, I hope please, Mary, may I please do not come after me for that? I get to love my life now. You know, like I said, I met some of my past was really strong, a lot of struggle, you know, I, I, um, I, you know, went through my own attempts of suicide. I don't know where the strength comes from. I mean, I feel like no, no, I take that back. I am totally supported by spirits and, um, ancestors and so many people that have come before me. And I think that have really tried to reveal themselves and the ways that they've been able to throughout my life, I think I've been very careful, but I had to get to a place where I could just be me, where I could really be in the world, fully me with all of my layers and all of my incarnations and know that it was good.
Speaker 0 00:32:28 That's all, you know what I mean? It doesn't mean that there aren't things that are hard. Like, I mean, like this last year was terrible, but I guess I don't, I don't, I'm not willing to give up on hope. I really feel like the thing that I want is so common and that really all of us want that, you know, we want that safety. We want that. Um, we want that Liberty. We want that equality. We want, you know what I mean? We want those things that make us feel like being here is meaningful for ourselves. I feel like maybe so much in my life, I kind of, uh, was suspending movement because who was I to like, you know, who do I think I am a know at all and all that stuff. And now I just kinda don't care. It's like, you know what?
Speaker 0 00:33:19 I fought a million to get into this body, this place, this space, this time, and I'm going to be here. What we can do this together and have some fun. I'll be open to being corrected when I'm wrong. But otherwise, like if you're not here to help me out and get out of the way, you know, I want to raise vibrations. It's been hard work raising my own. I mean, yeah, I want, I want more of it. Not just for me. I don't, I don't even know what strength is. You know, I hear that a lot from people though, you know, you're, you're really strong and I'm not sure what, I'm not sure what that is. I guess I'm only as strong as I have to be, but I guess resilience is not really like a badge. You know, it doesn't come with any real rewards. It's, it's, it's the result of some other stuff. Kimani,
Speaker 2 00:34:12 During our interview, I kept hearing a song in my head. So we're going to close with ECA Barnwells music in me, singing. You may know ECA as one of the founders of sweet honey in the rock, in that 2017 concert where Kimani first played synth with a chorus. One voice recorded this live performance of music in me. Singing arranged with permission by Dr. Barnwell Kimani, thank you for your candid stories, your music, your infectious laugh, which keeps me smiling.
Speaker 2 00:39:08 This concludes episode, six of sound mind from one voice mixed chorus, Minnesota's LGBTQ and straight allies chorus. This podcast is made possible by the voters of Minnesota through the Minnesota state arts board. Thanks to a legislative appropriation from the arts and cultural heritage fund. Yay, Minnesota voters. If you want to support this podcast, there is a one voice donation button at the bottom of the sound mind webpage, all gifts are graciously welcomed. Thank you to audio engineer playwright and all around smart tech person, Paul Cruz. This is our final sound mind episode for now. Thank you for jumping on the choir bus with one voice. As we toured Minnesota hearing from LGBTQ artists, exploring mental health and art stay tuned for further updates and more one voice
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